I Have Words With an Atheist

The following conversation is constructed from actual text of comments that my friend WORDS and I have shared in this blog. I just posted it here because I think it's interesting... you know, deserves front page attention!

In case it is not obvious, the title isn't intended to convey any animosity... just playing with WORDS. Ok, enough of my incredibly clever word plays... I apologize, that just slipped out. Here is the conversation in which I am arguing that faith in God is reasonable and WORDS disagrees:

Bud: I'm a little disappointed. I think you glossed over my arguments in your last post.

Words: Which ones? I’d be happy to take the time to address them fully.

Bud: Well, pretty much all of them. But look, your a priori assumption is that the existance of God is absurd; hence, we have no common ground as I state that the existance of God is at least a reasonable possibility.

Words: The only assumption here, is that you assume I’m assuming. I claim it has no
evidence and is rife with contradictions and "wives tales" if you will that hold no water. Do you eat ham, bacon, pork chops or ribs?

Bud: Yep, I pretty much eat all of them. Dr. Atkins, you know.

Words: Ya know you could REALLY envoke the anger of God for that one (according to
your good book that is):

Bud: For being on the Atkins diet?

Words (ignoring Bud's remark and continuing with the argument):
Lev 11:7 - 8 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Sure, some primative man saw that pigs wallow around in their own "filth" so to him, with his limited DATA assumed that such creatures must be bad to eat- Did you know that elephants "bathe" in their own feces? In fact they stick their trunks into it so deeply, that it plugs their nostrils up- then they forcefully SPRAY the feces onto their young and their FRIENDS- why? Well, the average uneducated quick to form a solution person, might assume that its cause they are DUMB animals....but in reality- SCIENCE shows us that they are forming immunities within their "family" of elephants from various illnesses by exposing one another to such treatment. Not bad for dumb animals huh? And they didnt require some book to tell them it was good for them.

Bud: Ok, before we get too many animals for me to keep track of, let me comment. First… you really have a thing for elephants, don’t you? I mean, last week you were talking about pink elephants on flying carpets. And no, I didn’t know about the whole bathing in feces thing. Clearly, you know more about elephants than I do. And isn’t it neat how God didn’t need a book to create each species with instincts necessary for survival?

Anyway, back to the pigs and dietary laws. You cite this dietary law as support for your contention that the Bible is "rife with contradictions and wives’ tales." An alternative explanation is that God wanted his people at that particular point in time to enjoy a "no pork" diet for health reasons or other purposes.

But back to my point. It is possible that God exists – I say "possible" in the sense that the existance of God is not empirically verifiable. So, how much faith to place in that possibility is a matter of choice. It is in fact a choice that every human must make… believe or dis-believe.

Words: The difference is- YOU place "faith" into "something". Thats why its NOT called
truth or fact- its called faith and belief. Data isnt gathered logically by one’s beliefs- one has a hypothesis, one investigates the hypothesis - gathering data to support one’s idea--then one eitherconfirms it is true or proves it is not.

Bud: Sounds like the scientific method to me. Perfectly applicable to… well, science. The physical universe. Matters that are empirically verifiable. Not applicable to God because He transcends the material universe. He is not empirically verifiable. Did I say that yet?

You want to confine God to a box no bigger than the physical universe. Sorry your conception is so small!

Words: Using logic and reason we can safely say that the Bible’s "proof" of God is based
on lack of education and experience.

Bud: I said previously that the Bible does not try to prove the existance of God. The Bible assumes the existance of God. The perspective of scripture is that only a foolish person would gaze into the starry night sky and not conclude that a Creator made this world. But go ahead and make your point…

Words: Man once believed that killing women and accusing them of being witches was doing God’s bidding. They would tie heavy stones to them and sink them into ponds and lakes and say that if she was a witch she would float to the top- and if she was innocent then God would take her. So, "damned" either way. And they got their thrill kill.

Bud: Uh… some ancient people were superstitious… and mean… Religion can be
misused. People weighted down with stones don’t float. Ok, I agree with all of
that. But check this out…

If you choose not to believe and turn out to be wrong, you've really missed out on something.

Words: THATS it? Thats all you have to defend your stance? That if you’re wrong "Then you'll be sorry!"?????

Bud: You have a real knack for hearing what you want me to have said rather than what I actually said. I didn’t say, "If God exists, you’ll be sorry." I said, "If God exists, you’ve really missed out." Key word: missed. Synonyms are "neglected" and "lost". As in, had an opportunity but lost it. Could have lived a lifetime in communion with his/her creator but didn’t.

Words: So better stand on the CHANCE of being right? Or rather in your mind- the certainty of being right (despite proof) so MIGHT as well play it safe? Thats it?! Well hell..... why not believe in ALL The religions Dieties, what if "God" is really Brahma or maybe Esaugetuh Emissee ("master of breath") in the Creek native american language. Why not cover your bases and believe in ALL of them. Beingyour philisophy revolves around no proof and only "faith".Why not believe that it was "Gods" PLAN for the doctors to be deficient in their duties if your child dies under their "care". Can you not see your own conflict?

Bud: Just because God can’t be empirically verified does not mean He can’t be known. He is known by revelation. He reveals Himself. He has broken into the physical universe in the person of Christ. He has spoken to us in scripture. So, that is how I know the difference between truth and falsehood in matters of theology.

Hey, it’s late and I’m tired… let’s carry this on at a later date… I'll let you have the last word next time, OK?

(I will have More Words With an Atheist sometime next week.)