More WORDS with an Atheist

I continue my conversation with WORDS, who is urging me to abandon my faith in the existance of God. This is a real conversation, edited only slightly for readability. We pick up the conversation at a point where I am trying to make the point that something can be known by faith.

Bud: You mentioned the Hacking murder case out in Utah earlier. So, by the way, how do you know Mark Hacking confessed to his two brothers?

Words: One does not KNOW but one has REASONABLE evidence to support the CLAIM
that he did – that’s the difference. If they’d just said he confessed, that in itself would be suspect- but considering the DATA that already exist.... Your claims have no evidence to support them. NOTHING- all you have is so and so... centuries ago said that it occurred despite NO proof at all- and you CHOOSE to believe it- the LIKLIHOOD of God being real is not comparable to Mark Hacking allegedly confessing to his own flesh and blood whom it would appear would have no reason to lie when such a lie would HARM their brother.

Bud: The apostle’s of Jesus had no reason to lie. In fact, they lost their lives on account
of their eyewitness testimony of the resurrection of Jesus. This is pretty strong
evidence that they believed the gospel they were preaching: that Christ died, was
buried and rose again. But in regard to the Mark Hacking case -- you consider it reasonable to trust those who reported the event and you believe it to be true.

Words: It is not the same-

Bud: It is the same. You are taking someone’s word for something. The fact that you could verify it if you want to is irrelevant. They said it. You believe what they said. Hence, you know what Mark Hacking did. You know it by faith.

Just so happens that you choose to put faith only in things you can verify.

Words: Well, I said ONE can REASONABLY assume it is true- based on the data. Where is your data? Do you have, for example, the numerous AUTHORS who penned the Bible on hand? If so THEN THAT is a reasonable comparison from which to base your argument- THOSE persons could be interviewed (were they alive) and have demands made upon them to show evidence supporting their claims.

Such as the cross jesus was nailed to, surely that would contain some of his DNA. Or perhaps the thorns from the wreath upon his head, surely that would have his blood on it. SOMETHING that we could examine and say- "Well, look at this- the DNA in this blood is unlike anyone else on the whole planet-I can not even explain what I'm seeing here- this is outside the realm of humans, outside of man"....this is data we COULD add to the list of the POSSIBLE evidence of God.

What about the spear that pierced his side. You mean NO ONE KEPT THE FAMOUS SPEAR? What? But no, you have NO data at all outside of someone’s book…

Bud: Actually, the historicity of Jesus is well documented. He existed. The only legitimate question is, "Did he rise from the dead as his disciples claim?".

Words : …What someone said is true about "person A" or in your case, "God"----without
existing DATA to add to the process of validating the claim is is nothing more than "He said / she said". UT if someone says something about "person A" and there is already DATA
existing that points to what someone said about "person A" being true then we have to reasonably believe the information given to us regarding "Person A".Now, what EVIDENCE or DTA do you have to collaborate the "testimony" in the Bible?

Bud: The universe… the heavens declare the glory of God and the earth shows His
handiwork…

Words: Well, isn’t it interesting that NO ONE thought to SAVE the cross he was crucified on or his crown of thorns or his "loin cloth" or swabs of his blood- NOTHING as a momento or some weird physical reminder of what occurred- \ hell, people have been known to take locks of HAIR from rock stars and the like – even at their funerals! But no- nothing, nothing exist at all to show that GOD is a reasonable concept. The most unique "man" on the planet and no one kept a physical reminder of him? An autographed photo......NOTHING? Do you see my point?

I may use humor here and there but I think we are both serious about this discussion.

Bud: Again, the historicity of Jesus is well-documented. No, there were no paparazzi in 33 AD so there are no fotos. But let’s face it… you are just posturing…

If I had the spear and the cross and DNA samples and the 33 AD Jerusalem Enquirer you still would not believe it because you are committed to atheism (or whatever you title your belief system) as a construct of reality. You are only open to matter and physical reality.

But I promised you the last word this week, so go ahead.

Words: I sincerely hope that you are not responsible or have never been responsible for Jury Duty.

Bud: Well, you are in luck on that one, although I am a registered voter.

Words: It would truly sadden me to know that someone’s FUTURE depended on your belief in what occurred- when you yourself are so EASILY swayed without a single, iota- of proof beyond what you color with your programmed upbringing.

Bud: Atheists are the only people in the world reasonable enough for jury duty?

Words: Its not your fault mind you- its the churches for grabbing hold of you at such an early age- but then that is how they do it. .Offer the biggest possible candy in the world.....the everlasting chew of God...like some magical carrot in front of the Donkey. Only your carrot is invisible, has no taste, no texture and no value outside of its ability to manipulate, distract and promise you what you want to hear.

Bud: By the way, God is not on trial. Does HE need to prove that He exists? Why would He need to do that?

But I promised you the last word.

Words: The check is in the mail right? Oh you didn’t get it yet? Must have gotten lost....I will send you another one....right away......just keep waiting and smiling and believing. It will come.

Soon.

Believe.